Calvin vs Arminius
vs Forgiven
It is not my purpose to take sides on extremeto divide the body of Jesus Christ over human interpretations of these Biblical truths concerning my salvation. In the argument it is easy to ignore or neglect the plain statements of the Bible, or do we totally understand the ways of God (Romans 11:33-36) or have the ability to under stand. But how tragic it is when we become more concerned with being "right" than being loving. I believe the way we conduct our debates and express our opinions will sometimes "grieve" the present of the Holy Spirit who dwells within the believer. There is a far range between "Five Points of Arminianism" and a ”Five Points of Calvinism” so I want to place my self.
1
"T" = TOTAL DEPRAVITY
The Calvinists believed that man is in absolute bondage to sin and Satan, unable to exercise his own will to trust in Jesus Christ without the help of God.
FREE WILL
Arminianism
believed that the fall of man was not total, maintaining that there was enough good left in man for him to will to accept Jesus Christ unto salvation.
DEPRAVITY
I
believe that all are sinners (Romans 3:23) and unable by human performance to earn, deserve, or merit salvation (Titus 3:5). I believe that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), and that apart from God's grace, no one can be saved (Ephesians 2:8-9). I believe that none are righteous, or capable of doing good (Romans 3:10-12), and that apart from the conviction and regeneration of the Holy Spirit, none can be saved (John 1:12-13; 16:8-11; I Peter 1:23-25). Mankind is clearly fallen and lost in sin.
2
"U" = UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION
Calvinists
believed that foreknowledge is based upon the plan and purpose of God, and that election is not based upon the decision of man, but the "free will" of the Creator alone.
CONDITIONAL ELECTION
Arminius
believed that election was based on the foreknowledge of God as to who would believe. Man's "act of faith" was seen as the "condition" or his being elected to eternal life, since God foresaw him exercising his "free will" in response to Jesus Christ.
ELECTION
I
believe that God chose the believer before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4-6), and based on His foreknowledge, has predestined the believer to be conformed to the image of His Son (Romans 8:29-30). I believe that God offers salvation to all who will call on His name. Romans 10:13 says, "For whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." I also believe that God calls to Himself those who will believe in His Son, Jesus Christ (I Corinthians 1:9). However, the Bible also teaches that an invitation (or call) is given to all, but that only a few will accept it. We see this balance throughout scripture. Revelation 22:17 states, "And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." I Peter 1:2 tells us we are, "elect according to the foreknowledge of God, the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ." Matthew 22:14 says, "For many are called, but few are chosen (elected)." God clearly does choose, but man must also accept God's invitation to salvation.
3
"L" = LIMITED ATONEMENT
Calvinists
believed that Jesus Christ died to save those who were given to Him by the Father in eternity past. In their view, all for whom Jesus died (the elect) will be saved, and all for whom He did not die (the non elect) will be lost.
UNIVERSAL ATONEMENT
Arminius held that redemption was based on the fact that God loves everybody, that Christ died for everyone, and that the Father is not willing that any should perish. The death of Christ provided the grounds for God to save all men, but each must exercise his own "free will" in order to be saved.
ATONEMENT
I
believe that Jesus Christ died as a propitiation (a satisfaction of the righteous wrath of God against sin) "for the whole world" (I John 2:2; 4:9-10), and that He redeems and forgives all who will believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ as their only hope of salvation from sin, death, and hell (Ephesians 1:7; I Peter 1:18-19). I believe that eternal life is a gift of God (Romans 6:23), and that "whosoever believeth" in Jesus Christ will not perish, but will have eternal life (John 3:16-18). I Timothy 4:10 says "we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, specially of those that believe." Hebrews 2:9 states that Jesus, "was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, should taste death for every man." The atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ was clearly sufficient to save the entire human race.
4
"I" = IRRESISTIBLE GRACE
Calvinists
believed that the Lord possesses irresistible grace that cannot be obstructed. They taught that the free will of man is so far removed from salvation, that the elect are regenerated (made spiritually alive) by God even before expressing faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. If a totally depraved person wasn't made alive by the Holy Spirit, such a calling on God would be impossible.
OBSTRUCTABLE GRACE
Arminius
believed that since God wanted all men to be saved, He sent the Holy Spirit to "woo" all men to Christ, but since man has absolute "free will," he is able to resist God's will for his life. He believed that God's will to save all men can be frustrated by the finite will of man. He also taught that man exercises his own will first, and then is born again.
I
believe that God's grace is not the result of human effort or worthiness (Romans 3:24-28; 11:6), but is the response of God's mercy and love to those who will believe in His Son (Ephesians 2:4-10). Grace gives to us what we do not deserve nor can earn by our performance (Romans 11:6). I believe that God's grace and mercy can be resisted by us. Jesus said in Matthew 23:37, We are not condemned because we have no opportunity to be saved, but a person is condemned because he makes a choice not to believe (John 3:18). In John 5:40 we read "And ye will not come to Me, that ye might have life." Jesus also said in John 6:37, "All that the Father giveth Me shall come to Me; and him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:40 states, "And this is the will of Him that sent Me, that everyone who seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life.
5
"P" = PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS
Calvinists
believed that salvation is entirely the work of the Lord, and that man has absolutely nothing to do with the process. The saints will persevere because God will see to it that He will finish the work He has begun.
FALLING FROM GRACE
Arminius
If man cannot be saved by God unless it is man's will to be saved, then man cannot continue in salvation unless he continues to will to be saved.
PERSEVERANCE
I
believe that nothing can separate us from the love of God in Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans 8:38-39), and that there is no condemnation to those who are in Jesus Christ (Romans 8:1). I believe that the promise of Jesus in John 10:27-28 is clear: "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of My hand." Jesus said in John 6:37, "him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out." We have this assurance in Philippians 1:6 "Being confident of this very thing, that He who hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ." I believe that the Holy Spirit has sealed us unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30).
It is sad that we have to even look between Calvinism or Arminianism because I don"t like ether of these men doctoral statments or there life they live. The truth is found in the word and the gray areas are gray areas. Until the Lord comes , why are we wasting time guessing.
posted by forgiven @ 11:04 PM
12 Comments:
Fascinating! How ever, if you fully think through the fact of man being dead spiritually you will see that he is wholly incapable of even looking to Jesus.
The best way to describe this is Lazarus in the tomb: Lazarus could not call out to Jesus to come and raise him from the dead could he? Since the fall, it has been man's nature, EVERY MAN'S NATURE, to reject Christ. Without regeneration no man would want anything to do with Christ- Christ to an unregenerate man is like salt on an open wound. That is the nature of fallen humanity.
Remember that Jesus taught that no one could even see the kingdom unless he was born-again. John
3:3. Remember also that Jesus said in John 6:65 that no man can come to me unless it was granted him by the Father.
Please re-read Rom. 3:10-23
Romes 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Paul tell us how to obtain
(through faith in Jesus Christ )Faith here means total reliance on Lord Jesus Christ as the way to be saved. (Savior from sin). It is based on the revelation of the person and work of Christ as found in the word. Faith is not an attempt to earn salvation, but is acceptance of a free gift. But like any gift you can refuse it. Paul goes on to say that this salvation is to all and on all who believe. You have to take it or accept that is the only time the pardon becomes valid in an individual’s life.
Thank You..bluecollar
I allways and very much respect what you say . You keep me digging Thanks Bother
Forgiven, I agree with your position. Its good to see another non-Calvinist out there. They seem to have us outnumbered.
Arminius was not actually certain about whether believers were eternally secure or not. I beleive they are, as you do.
Bluecollar, the statements in John 6 about only those who were drawn coming to Christ were only true before the cross. After his resurrection, Christ 'draws all men unto himself'. During His earthly ministry, Christ was hardening the hearts of the Jews so that they would crucify Him.
No man can see the Kingdom unless they are Born-again- but what is the Kingdom but Christ's rule on earth. We must interpret Scripture in its dispensational context.
I do not think there is convincing Scriptural data to include that man is incapable of believing when under the influence of the power of the Holy Spirit that accompanies the preaching of the Gospel. Otherwise how would the Gospel be the power of God unto salvation? If Regeneration were necessary to believe, then Regeneration would be the power of God unto salvation.
Dyspraxic Fundamentalist Thank You for your input and coming to my Blog. Your right there is alot of Calvinist. It makes it interesting, thats for sure.
Hi Forgiven,
I like the points you've made. I also saw your remarks on the Rose's Reasonings blog, and I agree with your take on 'Jesusism', so let me use that perspective to make a couple of points:
Both Calvinism and Armenianism use the fallen state of man as a premise. Is man totally depraved, or partially depraved? And God is merely responding from there.
However, we know that Christ has the preeeminence in all things, so He should be the preeminent consideration here, and not man. Indeed, the Lamb was slain from before the foundation of the world, before mankind was even created. So that understanding, in my opinion, should be the true premise for exploring this subject.
As such, I would like to respectfully challenge your conclusion over election. (Actually, this is what I would call 'the election proper', because there is an extended understanding in applying it to the Jews).
I believe that the election took place before time began, on the basis of absolute merit. As such, it resulted in the choosing of only one person: Jesus Christ, the righteous. As it is written:
"Behold My servant whom I uphold; My Elect One in whom My soul delights!"
(Isaiah 42:1)
God does not say 'one of My elect' as if one of many; but rather, 'My Elect One', which is one and only (see Gal 3:16). And because Jesus alone is the chosen one of God, we are chosen in Him.
"just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love."
(Eph 1:4)
In other words, the perspective of Christ Himself changes everything. Rather than being saved because we are chosen, we are chosen in Him because we are saved.
I also have a different take on the question of assurance -- though it's probably not what most people would expect. If you'd like to see it, here's a link that goes into more detail.
forgiven,
It's great that you are a thinker. Glad to have you visiting my blog and I will read yours too.
I have read Loren's link and it is very long ... but interesting and not the usual. His thoughts and mine are similar, but differ in a very LARGE point. My thoughts are being refined anyways ... and worth less than 2 cents. He sure provokes a lot of thinking, however.
I like what Dyspraxic said ... in fact, I am going to quote him on one of my posts in the near future. (His comments on my blog are usually very pithy... "sound stuff" ... "good thoughts".) ;~)
Rose you have great wit and you are very stable in what you believe ,thats is assume. Thank you for coming and I am look forward to more of you and husband bloging
Thank you Loren for your wisdom and coming to visit me.
But most of what Rose writes is of a devotional nature. She tends not to get onto the controversial stuff, so I cannot pick any faults in her reasoning. Her blog is good though, as is this one.
Every Blessing in Christ
Thanks Dyspraxic
Well said, I think you have nicely presented the issue from Scripture in a balanced and rational approach. Yes, when we begin to defend the doctrines of man, we are in danger of twisting the truth of the eternal word of God.
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